Episode 57: Your Beautiful Butterfly – Thyroid

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Welcome to Supplementing Health, a podcast presented by Advanced Orthomolecular Research. We are all about applying evidence based and effective dietary, lifestyle and natural health product strategies for your optimal health. In each episode, we will feature very engaging clinicians and experts from the world of functional and naturopathic medicine to help achieve our mission to empower people to lead their best lives naturally.

[01:10] The thyroid gland is a vital hormone gland. It plays a major role in the metabolism, growth and development of the human body and helps regulate many body functions. Thyroid Support is designed to support an underactive thyroid. It contains all of the necessary nutrients for optimal thyroid function along with ayurvedic herbs to enhance its activity. Get yours today at your local retailer or online at AOR.ca.

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 [01:31] Cassy Price: Hi everyone. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Supplementing Health. Today we are joined by Ashleigh Norris, registered holistic nutritionist to discuss thyroid health and common disorders affecting this mighty organ. Ashley is the founder of Soulful Sprout Holistic Nutrition which she created to offer patients a different approach to health and their hormones. Welcome Ashleigh.

[01:51] Ashleigh Norris: Hi. Thanks for having me.

[01:54] Cassy Price: So, I wanted to understand what are the common forms of thyroid disfunction that you see?

[02:01] Ashleigh Norris: Thyroid disorders affect our thyroid gland. For anybody who is wondering it is the butterfly shaped gland at the front of our neck. There are a few different types of thyroid disorders out there. So, some that you may be familiar with like hypothyroidism which is a result of our thyroid gland producing insufficient amounts of thyroid hormone. There is also hyperthyroidism which is where our glands start to produce excessive amounts of the same hormone. It is a little bit less common and more commonly liked to Graves. Then we have Goitres which some people are familiar with, which is just an enlargement of our thyroid gland regardless of the route cause. A goitre could be associated with hypo or hyperthyroidism and also a normal thyroid function, so you can have normally functioning thyroid hormones but still have a goitre. Then there are nodules which are typically associated with either benign tumours or thyroid cancer. Then, of course, last would be thyroid cancer. It is actually far more common in adult women than men and about two out of three cases of people are under the age of 25. So, it is really affecting a young group of individuals. There are a few different types of thyroid cancer out there. Overall, I would say that is the group of common forms of thyroid dysfunction that show up in clinic.

[03:24] Cassy Price: What are some of the signs of diminished thyroid function that people should be watching out for?

[03:30] Ashleigh Norris: So, it really depends. Each of those thyroid imbalances have its own particular group of signs and symptoms. Overall, you need to be watching out for fatigue, poor concentration or what we call brain fog. In clinic I hear clients refer to this as ‘mommy brain’ as well so watching for the correlation between that. Really dry skin, sometimes hair loss, definitely digestive issues and constipation, cold hands and feet or temperature changes and trouble regulating body temperature is a big sign of thyroid imbalance, fluid retention, definitely the muscle and joint aches and sometimes travelling into the mood world of depression and anxiety and then starting to impact our hormones so maybe excessive menstrual bleeding or heavy periods or irregular periods as well.

[04:24] Cassy Price:  Is there are a reason that people correlate it with that ‘mommy brain’? Is there a tie between postpartum hormone shifts and thyroid issues?

[04:34] Ashleigh Norris:  Yeah. It is interesting. I’m sure there is lots of clinical research out there that does connect the two. Some people can have postpartum thyroid issues for sure. One study that I read mentioned that it takes around two years to replenish the amount of minerals lost during pregnancy. So, when we look at the importance of minerals with thyroid function it would make sense that the thyroid might be slowed down, or the function would be impaired slightly because of the mineral imbalances postpartum as well. Then layered with the chronic stress and the postpartum stresses of new transition into motherhood and things like that as well.

[05:17] Cassy Price:  Outside of postpartum there are estimates that say as many as two million Canadians have undiagnosed thyroid disease. What are some of the reasons that thyroid issues are so common nowadays?

[05:29] Ashleigh Norris:  That is a great question. Truthfully, I think we can chalk it up to hustle culture and the pace at which our world operates. To break that down even more I would start with stress. So, I just mentioned that mineral depletion is really important, especially things like magnesium, sodium, potassium, copper and iodine. So, when stress levels go up in our day-to-day life, like they are for many people, it actually starts to deplete the minerals in our body quicker. We tend to not have time to replenish those minerals either through food, basically through intentional renourishment so when those minerals start to go down this will start to dysregulate our metabolism, we cannot create enough thyroid hormone often times and often we will start to throw off our digestion. It is sort of like a ripple effect.

[06:23] Back into why we are having more thyroid issues now is also related to modern agriculture. So, we know that we are farming faster and basically industrial and agricultural is starting to strip our soils of minerals, especially iodine. So, these minerals play an essential role in thyroid health and thyroid hormone production so if we are just not getting those in our daily diet then our body does not have what it needs to truly continue to function. So, that is a connection between stress and also remineralising the body. I would say overall we are exposed to unprecedented amounts of chemicals in our day to day lives. Those are toxins in our laundry detergents, in our cleaning agents in our houses and workplaces, even our clothing and our furniture is sprayed with lots of chemicals and so having these chemicals in our food, in our homes and on our skin is putting a burden. The thyroid gland itself is really sensitive to toxins and heavy metals. So, with the connection between the rise of chemicals in terms of industries and the stripping of our soils to rebalance the body, I feel like that is where a lot of these common imbalances seem to pop up for the average person.

[07:46] Cassy Price: We used to get iodine through our fortified salt, but a lot of people have started cutting salt out of their diet knowing the correlation with high blood pressure and heart issues or they are switching to mineral salts or other types, like pink Himalayan sea salt, that sort of thing. Do you recommend then that people supplement to replace that or are there other foods or ways to increase your iodine intake in your diet?

[08:15] Ashleigh Norris: That is such a great question. I am so glad you raised that point. I think that, I talk a lot with my clients about this, salt is not the enemy. We have all gone through periods of health and learning about things where we thought that butter was the enemy and then we learned that margarine wasn’t the superior alternative in terms of cardiovascular health. So, I think we are learning that in terms of thyroid health right now. It is that these Himalayan salts are lacking some of the iodine that we otherwise need. Having a box of conventional table salt in your kitchen and using that when you are boiling your pasta or salting certain dishes has a lot of benefits. Sometimes I will tell my clients just to salt their water because we tend to be depleted in those minerals in general, so, tiny little ways that we can add salt back into our diet intentionally knowing that we are not heavily salting our food and maybe the saltshaker isn’t living on the table per say but in our meal prep we can consciously bring that in. Also, the rise of, I guess some people are more familiar with it and some aren’t but incorporating seaweed into our diets. So, dulse, guacamole, sushi, and using sushi paper and stuff like that in terms of snacks and meals is really important as well. Just anyway that really works for you that feels sustainable in terms of your lifestyle but definitely trying to intentionally bring that iodine rich foods back into your diet.

[09:41] Cassy Price: You had mentioned that exposure to these toxic chemicals and toxic elements is also having an effect on our thyroid. Certain elements like bromine and cadmium can actually interfere with the uptake and utilisation of those essential elements, namely iodine, and actually selenium as well which is really important for the thyroid and thyroid health. So, how do you see these relationships impacting thyroid disorders and how can we be more conscious of our exposure to those two elements in particular but also all of the other chemicals interfering?

[10:18] Ashleigh Norris: I think nowadays we are talking more about the chemical load in our homes and consumers are becoming more and more aware of these in conventional detergents and cleaning agents and exposure in general so one is just creating more space between us and those chemicals and toxins. So, not bringing them into your home, maybe using protective gloves and the areas where you do have to handle those chemicals, for example, in the workplace and you don’t have any other way to work around that, just becoming aware of where those are in your day-to-day life and how to make more space between you and them. For a lot of people that is leaning into toxin-free or home cleaning agents or switching from fragranced things to non-fragranced things, your laundry detergents, soaps and other chemical cleaners as well. I would say that this is not an overnight fix.

[11:13] This is not something that you will be able to snap your fingers and have this chemical, free toxin free life but consciously cultivating that and being attentive or maybe this month we are going to focus on getting those cleaning agents out of your kitchen or out from your kitchen sink and get curious of what else is out there in some of the health food stores or from more health conscious retailers in terms of healthy swaps for you. One of my favourite places to look for more information on these types of chemicals and common things that we have in our homes is the environmental working groups website. You can pop in a chemical that you come in contact with in the workplace if you are curious about it and type in the name of it and it will tell you what is in it and it will rank it in terms of toxic load and if it is a endochondral structure, so if it will have an impact on your thyroid as well.

[12:06] Cassy Price:  Now can thyroid issues be misdiagnosed?

[12:10] Ashleigh Norris: For sure. Sometimes you may have a thyroid imbalance, but it won’t show up on blood work. The way I explain this to my clients is in terms of conventional blood work labs, some doctors are not running a full panel for people but also people are showing up just inside of the line of fine. What I mean by that, let’s say a conventional lab range is between two and five and your blood work shows up at two point one. You are going to show up within normal range but are you going to be feeling good? There is this optimal range that we look at, in terms of a lot of naturopaths and functional nutritionist look at this. I call it the thriving range. We call it the functional range in terms of blood work so if this is the space where you are thriving. Do you want to live just inside the line of fine or do you actually want to be energised and have a healthy metabolism and be able to digest your food and all of those things? This is where we get subclinical thyroid. So, it is not showing up clinically as a yes, but you are experiencing a lot of those symptoms. Sometimes people have diary symptoms that take a really long time before they get outside of that line of fine.

[13:22] Cassy Price:  Another thing that I learned too from my past life in the lab world is that a lot of conventional tests, those ranges are developed with the average population not the healthy population, right? So, that is taking the healthy and the sick and combining them all together which is why you have that line of fine where it is still within the range, but you are not actually at optimal level, right?

[13:49] Ashleigh Norris: Absolutely. I think that is really important to take into consideration. I am sure there was a reason that they used the general population, some people were thriving and some weren’t in terms of developing those ranges. I know that a lot of my clients and clients who are working with naturopaths and other functional practitioners are in pursuit of something more and in pursuit of feeling more than just “I am okay on a daily basis.” It is something to consider when you are getting blood work back. I always encourage my clients to grab a copy of it and just really instead of just trusting that you are fine and taking that as word, ask for a copy and investigate those ranges. There is lots of information out there where you can look up functional ranges for thyroid markers and you can do a little bit of a deeper dig and check into that which may help you actually be able to get diagnosed with an imbalance sooner, so you are not becoming misdiagnosed and or not just continuing to suffer without some answers as well. 

[14:49] Cassy Price: Are there ways you can check your thyroid yourself without going in for blood work?

[14:54] Ashleigh Norris: Yes and no. So, there are some ways, obviously checking in with a list of symptoms and things like that but that is not going to tell you per say what is going on with your thyroid. One thing that I think is important in terms of self-checking is checking for nodules or goitres so any imbalance or getting familiar with the texture, shape and size of your thyroid so that if you were to have some sort of abnormal growth or something like that you yourself would be able to catch it early much like we do a breast check exam. I recommend just tying this all together because we are already checking some of those tissues in that area as well, so a thyroid check is really important.

[15:35] I advocate this myself especially because I myself had thyroid cancer five years ago and I didn’t know anything about my thyroid or that I should be checking it or that it could grow and create abnormalities that we would actually be able to feel ourselves so one is definitely the self-check. The second, the next best option in terms of checking your thyroid, is to get a full thyroid panel with either your doctor, your naturopathic doctor or a nurse practitioner as well. I should mention that there are a few kits that are available now through the internet, where if you don’t have access to that care maybe in terms of expenses for insurance if you’re not insured, you can purchase these thyroid tests kits that will test your full thyroid blood work panel through a finger prick with is also very great for people in terms of getting more direct answers for their thyroid health.

[16:35] Cassy Price: Awesome. Are you comfortable sharing a little bit more about your story because I would love to know what tipped you off to find out what was going on and how that journey played out for you?

[16:46] Ashleigh Norris:  I would love to share a little bit about that. So, I was actually diagnosed with Hashimoto’s or underactive thyroid at the age of 19 which for me was quite young. I didn’t have any education or connection to my body at that time. I was going through university and focused on my social life and being a 19-year-old. So, I was put on thyroid medication but really wasn’t educated in terms of immunity, what Hashimoto’s does and how we care for our body when we have an autoimmune disease, so I didn’t address inflammation or anything else that we want to be really cautious of with respect to Hashimoto’s. I was on thyroid medication for many years and then about nine years later I would say that I went through what most people would try to do in their 20s like trying to get into the working world and a little bit of overexerting yourself and burnout and was feeling fatigued all of the time. I wouldn’t say I was consciously caring for my body, but I just knew that I wasn’t feeling as energised as my friends around me.

[17:52] It got to a point where I was 27 where I just woke up one day and I literally could not get out of bed. I would define this now as HPA Access dysregulation or adrenal burnout. I knew something was deeply wrong with me and I had no idea why. I knew I was taking my thyroid medication. Every year I would go in for a physical. They would put me on a little bit of a higher dose. I knew that things were getting worse and worse, but I didn’t take any preventative action or understand how to care for my body at that time. I went into my doctor’s office and I was very lucky that my doctor works in a hospital and she also had thyroid cancer herself less than 10 years before so she sent me up for blood work and I got all of the blood drawn and went for some scans and an ultrasound on my thyroid and I did have a large growth on my thyroid which was then biopsied a few different times and It came back as thyroid cancer so I ended up having a total thyroidectomy at the age of 27.

[18:53] That was a pretty scary time. Obviously going from just being on thyroids and not knowing anything about your body and thinking you are doing the right thing to having lost your thyroid and having to be on medication but also the impact of that on my body was pretty scary. That really catapulted me into the work that I do now. It is helping people really understand their body from a place of informed consent but also advocating for better care and how to really take their health into their own hands.

[19:31] Cassy Price:  I can imagine that would have been a tough time and a moment of growth as well I would assume, having to deal with all the thoughts and emotions that go on with that but also being pragmatic at the same time, right?

[19:43] Ashleigh Norris:  Yeah. Absolutely. I would say it really redefined me. Slowly there was an evolution backwards of “Okay, I have eliminated a lot of toxins and taken a really impactful approach to my body and hormone health and what I put in my body and really deep learning.” So, yeah, I am really grateful that it happened to me which is ironic in terms of talking about disease and diagnosis because I feel that it did wake me up into a new era of consciousness and connection to my body.

[20:17] Cassy Price: What exactly is Hashimoto’s?

[20:22] Ashleigh Norris: Great question. So, Hashimoto’s is an auto immune disease. This is a disorder that can cause hypothyroidism or an underactive thyroid. With any autoimmune disease, we have antibodies that start to attack a certain tissue. So, in this case with Hashimoto’s, the immune system creates antibodies that start to attack your thyroid. From there your thyroid can become very enflamed and sometimes create damage to the actual tissue which would slow down your thyroids ability to make thyroid hormone.

[20:57] Cassy Price: Okay. Knowing that it is an autoimmune disease does that mean that you are at a greater likelihood of having other autoimmune conditions present in conjunction to Hashimoto’s?

[21:07] Ashleigh Norris: Absolutely. I think that is always a valid concern for anyone with an autoimmune disorder, because we have over activation of our immune system, is that this could then stimulate other autoimmune processes in the body and commonly I will see clients come to me with several autoimmune disorders. We look at it as though unless we start to work with the immune system and start to downregulate this inflammation and slow down the overactivation of that immune system, you have the potential to just collect these autoimmune diseases as the body becomes more inflamed and more stressed.

[21:44] Cassy Price: Okay, that makes sense. You had mentioned that when you got your diagnosis for Hashimoto’s, you weren’t really well educated on the risks and some of the things you should do for prevention. Can you share what those risks are? Does that automatically open you up to the risk of thyroid cancer or other conditions and what are some of those steps that people can take to reduce the risk factors?

[22:09] Ashleigh Norris:  That is such a great question. In clinical research there is no direct correlation between developing Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and ending up with thyroid cancer. In my head it makes sense that if a tissue is enflamed or aggravated or being attacked that we could have the potential for cellular abnormalities to develop. So, if you do have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, this does not mean that you will have thyroid cancer, but it also doesn’t mean that it is off the table for you. In terms of risk factors for people with Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, women are far more likely to develop Hashimoto’s disease, we should know that. Age is definitely a risk factor. Hashimoto’s can occur at any age, but it more commonly occurs in middle age so women in their 30s and 40s and even50s in terms of development. You are at higher risk of developing Hashimoto’s if someone in your family has other autoimmune diseases or has thyroid imbalances as well.

[23:13] Once you have Hashimoto’s you are at a risk of developing other types of autoimmune disease or visa versa. Maybe you have type 1 diabetes or lupus or RA and you then potentially could be at risk of developing Hashimoto’s if we don’t address the immune system as well. Sometimes people who have excessive amounts of environmental radiation are at increased risk for developing Hashimoto’s. I think is important to talk about. I actually grew up within 30km of a nuclear power plant in the south end of Toronto and so living near the lake there and being able to see the power plant I never really thought about radiation or exposure as a child but now learning more about the risk and correlations I definitely see that they have been a factor in the development of Hashimoto’s for myself.

[24:08] Cassy Price:  Hindsight is always 20-20.

[24:12] Ashleigh Norris: Yeah. Absolutely. I work with clients who have Hashimoto’s that are working in radiology labs, who are registers dental hygienists. Their level of exposure to radiation is high even with the lead aprons and all of the lead walls and facilities and things like that with the micro radiations. So, yeah, there is a lot of different environmental exposures and potentials for disease development, but I think there is a psycho-emotional component there too in terms of risk factors with relationship to trauma, early childhood trauma, socioeconomic trauma and things like that as well. So, I didn’t want to leave that one off the table.

[24:57] Cassy Price:  Fair. You had mentioned that women are more likely to develop Hashimoto’s. Why is that?

[25:04] Ashleigh Norris:  So, that is a good question. There a lot of different schools of thought around this but overall women are seven times more likely to develop Hashimoto’s than men. That is a huge number. It is not to say that men do not have Hashimoto’s and I do know a lot of men with Hashimoto’s but in terms of this, some of the schools of thought are related to women actually having a placenta and the connection between basically being able to carry a baby and pregnancy and having a placenta. I would love to hear if you have heard of any other connections to this with relation to women having more Hashimoto’s than men but that is the main one that pops up.

[25:50] Cassy Price:  I actually haven’t. I don’t know much about Hashimoto’s. Most of my thyroid knowledge and experience is more in general about hypo or hyperthyroidism rather than the more specific conditions like Hashimoto’s that is due to autoimmune issues, right? So, do you know then if thyroid issues in general are more common to effect women over men as well.

[26:16] Ashleigh Norris: Yes. So, more women do have underactive thyroid than men, in terms of hyperthyroidism. Again it can be related to our sex hormones and regulation of those as well. Postpartum thyroid dysfunction occurs about 10% of women after giving birth as well so another link to childbirth and having more diverse sex hormones as well.

[26:47] Cassy Price: Okay. That makes sense. So, do you know why goitres are a common symptom that are associated with Hashimoto’s?

[26:53] Ashleigh Norris: Yes. So, goitres are related to the deficiency of iodine. So, if we are going to breakdown in terms of thyroid hormone the formation of thyroid hormone, we need T4 and T3, actually I would like to mention the full thyroid panel afterwards as well, but in terms of the formation of thyroid hormone itself we need tyrosine and then we need iodine. The T4 molecule is one tyrosine with four iodine and T3 again tyrosine and three iodine. So, when we break that down in terms of goitres and the iodine deficiency, if we are deficient in something it is almost as though the thyroid becomes starved so that imbalance starts to create abnormal growth of the thyroid or goitres within the thyroid tissue and so typically it is related to absence of iodine or enough minerals in the diet. That is actually why they started to add iodine into our table salts so that we can start to address the mass prevalence of goitres in society because we knew we were stripping the soils form our agricultural practices or iodine and they weren’t being replenished into our soils so they weren’t making it onto our table so now we have added that iodine back into our table salt so at least we get iodine on our table rather in a daily practice or a more accessible way.

[28:27] Cassy Price: Okay. Do you know if athletic level, more the elite, or the people who are doing more hot yoga or things where they are sweating a lot where they are depleting their electrolytes, does that have an impact on your thyroid health as well?

[28:46] Ashleigh Norris: Yeah. Absolutely. Our thyroid is regulated off of a lot of minerals. Those minerals play a role, you mentioned selenium as well, those minerals play a role in thyroid hormone regulation, production and also conversion so we have to convert thyroid hormone from TSH which comes from our pituitary gland into T4 which is made in our thyroid and then that needs to be converted inside mostly our liver and also our gut into T3 which is the active hormone. The T3 then goes and will go into every cell in our body which regulated and gives a feedback loop into our pituitary gland which will be signalled to produce the whole connection if you back loop to produce more TSH. So, in terms of depleting a lot of those minerals, anything along that way in terms of conversion to other hormones, minerals are involved in the process.

[29:46] Enzymes are used and enzymes need minerals to convert those hormones. So, people who are sweating more, and obviously in elite performing athletes, or hot yoga or regular sauna users or cyclists, all of those people would need to intentionally replenish their electrolytes and that is why you see things commonly talked about like electrolyte gel packs and things like that for marathon runners. We need to constantly replenish. Some of the easiest ways to do it is using trace mineral drops into your water or like we talked about putting sea salt into your water. One of my favourite ways to replenish electrolytes in the morning is a quarter cup of coconut water with a pinch of sea salt as well so it a great variety of minerals and electrolytes. You see even in the sports world, Gatorade, obviously it is loaded with a lot of sugars and artificial colours and sweeteners, but it is a really great form of electrolytes. So, you can make your own at home electrolyte mix as well to replenish those lost minerals that would prevent the slowing down of our thyroid function as well.

[31:06] Cassy Price: Awesome. You had mentioned that you wanted to talk about the thyroid panel. Do you want to start with what you would normally have ordered for a client?

[31:17] Ashleigh Norris: Yeah. Absolutely. In terms of thyroid test, most people will commonly know the thyroid test marker as TSH which is Thyroid Stimulating Hormone and so it is also important to ask for free T4 which is the circulating T4 hormone, free T3, sometimes reverse T3. Some of your endocrinologists or doctors may give you a little bit of a push back on reverse T3. Then in terms of antibodies which will help in terms of the diagnosis of Hashimoto’s earlier, TPO antibodies and TG or Thyroid Globulin antibodies as well in terms of inflammatory markers in relationship to your thyroid gland. Having those six on a panel is a really great place to start especially if you do have that long laundry list of symptoms associated with other under active or overactive thyroid or Hashimoto’s.

[32:17] Cassy Price:  Do you ever have your patients do a toxic element or an essential element test as well?

[32:22] Ashleigh Norris:  Yes. So, we do hair mineral analysis. We take the most recent inch of growth from the back of their neck and we will submit that into the lab which is basically burned down into an ash for trace minerals just to get an idea of mineral deficiencies that we could address early on for thyroid health. If anybody is interested in asking their practitioner for that test it is a hair mineral analysis test.  

[32:53] Cassy Price:  Fantastic. Okay, so if listeners want to work with you to address their thyroid or even get in touch to discuss where they are at, how could they go about doing that?

[33:03] Ashleigh Norris: I share a lot of information, if you are looking to learn a bit more, over on Instagram. My handle is @thesoulfulsprout. On my website I do have a lot of information with respect to the services and programmes and ways to work together. My website is www.thesoulfulsprout.com.  

[33:24] Cassy Price:  Fantastic. Well thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me Ashleigh. I think it is a really great topic and the fact that you come from it from both the professional and that personal side, I think, gives a well-rounded perspective on the thyroid health picture as well so thank you so much.

[33:39] Ashleigh Norris: Thank you so much. It has been a pleasure. I am glad I could share this information.

[33:44] Cassy Price: Wonderful. Thanks to the listeners for tuning in today as well.

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Thank you for listening to Supplementing Health. For more information about our guests, past shows, and future topics, please visit AOR.ca/podcasts or AOR.us/podcasts. Do you have a topic you want us to cover? We invite you to engage with us on social media to request a future topic or email us at [email protected] We hope you tune in again next week to learn more about supplementing your health.

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